(Read previous post) When we were at the final two tables, I made two big laydowns that I believe were correct. 2009 was pretty bad for me and I think a lot of it had to do with my inability to make a big laydown late in a tournament. I'm curious as to what others would have done in these situations.
Two tables left and I have about 25 big blinds. Active player opens utg+1 for 2.5xbb. I call in middle position with ATd. Big stack on the button calls very fast. Flop comes 5s6sTc. Opener cbets small and I reraise 3x his bet. Big stack button insta pushes all in. I didn't have much history at all on him. However, I knew from checking his stats that he wasn't a very profitable player. I don't see him making this play with JTo, KTo, or QTo. If he had a set, I would think that he would try to get more value but with two other players in and two spades on board he may be trying to chase away any draws. He also could've had top pair with flush draw. JJ and QQ are posibilities but I doubt it. I feel there are just too many hands that are ahead of me or that have a big draw so I puke in my mouth, fold, and am left with around 18bbs.
My next big lay down was against utg min raiser. He had just came to our table and did not see my previous lay down. I was in the BB and had AKo. I recognized this player and he was a very solid profitable player. Sometimes I just call in this spot being out of position. However, I didn't want to play a pot with this particular player oop. I had around 20 BBs and decided to reraise his 10k bet to 24,500. He tanked and used up 45 of his 60 second time bank and pushed all in. I barely had him covered. Him using the time bank appeared to me him trying to act weak, or he could've been checking my stats. Here again, I usually can't fold in this spot but I just had feeling he had AA, KK, or at best AK.
I see other players make these calls all the time and get lucky, but if I had called I probably would've been dominated. Does anyone else make these laydowns or am I just a nit?
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8 comments:
I would definitely consider calling in either spot. In the first hand I would think you were either ahead or up against a set. I mean, he called a pf raise so I can't put him on any two pairs in this spot, nor on a big pocket pair where he would either reraise or at least probably hollywood for a couple of seconds before calling trappily. I wasn't there but I have definitely made calls like this in that spot -- for me it would come down to my read of whether I was up against a set or not.
On the second hand, I don't think there was nearly enough information there for you to put the guy on AA or KK. And against anything else you almost surely call for the pot odds alone and try to set yourself up for a depp rinal table run. I mean I am all about going with your read there, but my feeling from these two hands is that you might have been playing a little bit conservative out of a desire to reach the final table at all costs.
Nice run though, the 5050 is a fun tournament with a nice structure and a big pot for the final tablists.
First fold is fine, although when you raise the UTG's tiny lead, you set yourself up to get pwned by the button (or UTG, if he bet/threebets you) like this.
Second is criminal. You really shouldn't be 3b/folding AK for 20BB. You can flat and play a small pot, or raise/call to play a big one, but trying to split the difference ends up forcing you, instead of your opponent, to make a mistake.
Thanks for the comments. Mike, In the hand with AK I FULLY intended to call him if he came over the top of my reraise and if I saw anyone make this laydown I would think it was bad also. But when he tanked like that I just had the feeling that he was doing that to look weak and begging for a call. I think any medium pairs he pushes quickly to look strong and I don't think he makes this move with AQ or worse. At that stage in mid-stakes mtts I think most players have their minds made up on which hands they are going in with so for him to stall like that sent up a big red flag imo.
I kind of agree with Heffmike. I can see the first fold, difficult as it was. The second one --- well ... tough to lay down if you want the big money from the win.
Congrats -- the big score should be coming ...
First hand is fine.
Second hand is an easy call as played. Holding two blockers (limiting him to just 6 combos of AA or KK) and ahead of his entire shoving range, you are flipping here at worst almost certainly. I would rather find myself here with AK than a mid pair.
At that stage in mid-stakes mtts I think most players have their minds made up on which hands they are going in with so for him to stall like that sent up a big red flag imo.
You are probably right, but his cards are his cards when you make your decision preflop - if he has AA/KK, you won't be getting away from this anyway without losing a ton of chips/getting stacked. Timing tells can be meaningful - or they can just be because of multitabling or network lag.
In short, while the tank/jam usually means a big hand - raising out of the blinds with AK in this spot means you have to grit your teeth and realize there's a good change you're running right into AA/KK.
Besides, flip the situation around. You minraise UTG, blind threeballs. Why wouldn't you flat if you had a big hand and let the blind hang himself on the flop? Jamming preflop allows the blind to fold the best hand or a coinflip... hmmm.
Hand #1, against an unknown, I'm mucking preflop. If I had a read on the guy, I would certainly consider the call, and in your situation, a fold is only a small mistake.
Hand #2 - unless UTG is Jon Turner or some freaking ridiculously tight nit, my chips are going in the middle preflop. If he has bullets or cowboys, oh well. Next tourney is around the corner. And I don't put much weight on timing tells. Sometimes my wife calls me, and I have to make a mad rush, take care of whatever, and run back with my clock expiring.....not saying that some don't try and mess with you on the timing tells, but in this case, my chips are flying in pronto. Nice job on the late run...but I know how you feel, having been there a bazilion times myself.
I fold #1
Hand #2 I get it all in. I have seen players do the timebank thing to try to look weak, but they never go that deep into it. Maybe 5-10seconds max.
You want to keep as much timebank as you can for the final table. I don't think anyone uses most of it up there just to put a "head fake" on you.
And thanks for the linkage...
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